Is God a Democrat or Republican? – Part 2
Sep.17, 2008 in
Podcast Episodes
In this conclusion to a two-part discussion about God and politics, Ray and Steve discuss some of the effects brought about by political activism in the name of religion. Can we apply Christian standards (however we may define them) to a world that is not in Christ? Can we legislate in such a way that true heart change takes place?
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September 18th, 2008 at 9:24 am
all right enough of the Sarah Palin jokes
September 18th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Hello,
I found your podcast by following the link that Scott (http://www.spiritualtramp.com/) posted. Even as a non-Christian, I must say that I’m impressed. I hardly agree with you on anything, but I’m still impressed. I’m so accustom (and disgusted) by the number of Christians so willing to conflate their mythology with politics. On that front, you two are a much needed voice of reason within modern Christianity. One need not be a conservative to be a Christian.
Anyway, I sent the link to this and Part I to some relatives who could really use the message.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
T, I just went back and listened to the entirety of both parts, and I’m honestly not sure what you’re referring to. We did not mention Sarah Palin by name at all, nor were any references that could have been about her include any jokes.
Can you explain to what you refer? Thanks!
September 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Sid, your comment means a lot. Thanks for listening, and thanks for your honest evaluation. Above all, thanks for being able to look past our differences and appreciate our attitude and heart in this!
September 19th, 2008 at 5:24 am
You guys commented on the unlikely prospect of listeners from outside of the US. I’m sure there are many of us but to allay your fears I’ve only just recently begun listening and enjoy your engaging manner and laid back style. The contents not half bad either.
Cheers from an Australian listener,
Ian
September 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
lipstick on a pig – it was one of the biggest news items last week – Barack Obama made the exact same comment Ray did and everyone thought he was referring to Palin.(which he probably was)
My comment was meant to be funny.
September 19th, 2008 at 8:29 am
T, ohhhhh! I understand now. Sorry about that. I thought we had offended you, and I couldn’t figure out how! 🙂
“lipstick on a pig” is actually, as you probably know, a metaphor that pre-dates Sarah Palin’s pit bull comment by a long time. I’m honestly not sure either Obama or Ray were thinking of Palin when they used that phrase.
Anyway, thank you for listening and commenting. Sorry I didn’t get the joke the first time 🙂
September 19th, 2008 at 9:01 am
I agree with alot if not most of what you guys are saying. Is God democrat or REbuplican? Neither. Is He liberal or conservative? Both, liberal with His love and conservative with His judgement. However, there are several things I’m not sure I agree with either.
To begin with, USA=Babylon. I’m not saying that the USA is the Kingdom of God(I’M NOT SAYING THAT!), but didn’t Jesus talk about their being goat nations and sheep nations in the end. Surely you don’t equate the US with Iraq(Babylon). If you do, then on what basis does any nation qualify to be a sheep nation?
September 19th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
T,
I didn’t even think about the Sarah Palin jab when I used that comment…but I noticed the same thing after I listened back to it before posting it! 🙂 Oh well…
Thanks for your comments…I’m gonna have to think on the goat/sheep nation thing…bear with me!
October 16th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Just a couple thoughts:
As a Christian I don’t think of voting as an attempt to bring the kingdom of God to the earth. In a democracy we are asked to hire our own leaders. I try to assess the character of the applicants and get a sense for how trustworthy they are. I try to assess their various policy proposals to get a feel for their judgement and priorities. Then I cast my vote according to my own personal judgement, knowing that other Americans will do the same. But the applicant is not being hired to establish the Kingdom of God. He or she is being hired to be one of the leaders of this nation, and of this world.
Concerning abortion – There are laws against all kinds of sins that injure other people. It is true that do not steal is one of the ten commandments, but it is also against the law in this country. Do not murder is in the ten commandments, but it is also against the law. If abortion is nothing more than cutting away some unwanted tissue such as clipping your nails, then it should not be against the law. If however abortion is killing another human being then government has the right and responsibility to protect the innocent. If government passed laws to restrict abortion it would not do so to increase the morality of others, but to protect unborn children. If a person believes that abortion is murder he wouldn’t have to be a Christian to want a law passed to protect those children. If a person believes that abortion is just a medical proceedure in which a woman removes some unwanted tissue, then it would only make sense that he wouldn’t want government to interfere with it. Whether or not a person is a Christian really doesn’t have anything to do with it. Of course our opinions and decisions are influenced by our worldview, but we need not Christianize policy decisions. They are decisions that we all must make together, regardless of our individual beliefs.
Just a few thoughts while listening on my drive to work this morning.
October 16th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Good stuff Brent. Great points!
But the applicant is not being hired to establish the Kingdom of God.
Exactly! I totally agree with you. However, to listen to many conservative Christians, this is exactly what it sounds like they believe they are accomplishing. I embraced this kind of thinking not long ago myself.
Did you hear Arnold Conrad as he gave the invocational prayer at the beginning of a McCain rally the other day? Here is an excerpt from his prayer:
“I would also pray, Lord, that your reputation is involved in all that happens between now and November, because there are millions of people around this world praying to their god—whether it’s Hindu, Buddha, Allah—that his opponent wins, for a variety of reasons,…And Lord, I pray that you will guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their God is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own name with all that happens between now and election day.”
This is the kind of stuff that just frustrates me. I guess proclaiming the good news of Jesus to people is not enough to establish God’s kingdom…we need John McCain 🙂
As to abortion…once again you make a great point! I too totally think that abortion is wrong. Maybe we need to dialog with nonbelievers on an intellectual level about the beginning of life instead of throwing Scriptures (which they don’t necessarily believe) at them. This kind of discussion, instead of overly simplified religious fervor, could be the kind of thing that actually leads to the end Christians were actually wanting all along. I dunno…just a thought.
Great thoughts Brent…keep em’ coming!
October 16th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Wow! That’s quite a quote. I want to respond to it, but I don’t even know where to begin. I also pray about the election. I pray that God would give us the wisdom to know what the right thing to do is, and to give us the courage to do it. That’s the same prayer I pray on behalf of our leaders once they get elected as well.
As an aside, I’m convinced we Christians get so wrapped up in our own sub-culture that we have no idea how we are perceived by others. As you say, quoting scripture to someone who doesn’t even believe in the Bible is pointless. It can also be intellectually sloppy on our part. If there are truths in the Bible (as most unbelievers would agree that there are), then they can withstand scruitiny, and be expressed in language not lifted directly from the pages of scripture. But of course, that’s another topic.
September 17th, 2011 at 6:59 am
This is so good, guys! You speak my heart exactly here on this topic … The K of G and how it works like leaven in and through us here and now wherever we’re ‘planted’ … Love it and appreciate you both!!! JG Chapel Hill, NC