Beyond the Box

6 Comments on “Christian Superstition”

1. Big C
   October 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

   I promised myself that I wouldn’t post every episode – but the numbers thing made me laugh. I used to work for Chic-fil-A – a known christian establishment. This one particular order came to $6.66 and the assistant manager freaked out and basically forced the customer to change the total. The customer didn’t care but he couldn’t have that and he was serious. The scary thing is he was also a youth pastor. On another note my call in number for my show starts with 666 – I didn’t request it but I have loved having it since I got it. I love God and hate traditions/superstitions and I take a bit of devious joy in making christians squirm with the superstitions. Thanks for another great episode guys.

2. Chip
   October 31st, 2008 at 10:31 pm

   Great one, guys. I put it on my phone/mp3 player last night and listened to it in 7 minute portions throughout the day (I thought 7 minutes portions would amplify my blessing). Now I do need to rebuke you, though, for ending the podcast at 37 minutes. Why? You were so close to 40 minutes. It would have been much more anointed at 40 minutes. And why just two of you speaking? You need a seperate announcer so 3 men would be speaking. Three is a much better number in Christian podcasts.
   But seriously… I really enjoyed it. You made me think. God used your conversation in my life. Thanks.

3. Raborn
   October 31st, 2008 at 11:14 pm

   Big C,
   You can comment here any time. 🙂

   Chip,
   Guess how many minutes you get if you subtract 37 minutes from 40…3…you know we planned that 😉

   Thanks for listening 🙂

4. FRed
   November 25th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

   Hey guys! Last night following the conclusion of the Jen and Dave Show, I went onto itunes and downloaded the ten episodes that were available there. I have been listening to your podcast while working here in my home office today, and I must confess that I have really enjoyed what ya’ll had to say. I wanted to comment on your episode in regards to “Christian Superstitions” in particular to Sunday worship services. I had grown up in a somewhat traditional church, and then I was also a youth minister for about 12 years. In 1997, I was working as a youth minister at a very small church with an older minister and most of the congregation was older people. I got in a lot of trouble from the minister and the elders, b/c I had planned for our youth to attend a Christian youth conference that lasted from Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon. As you can imagine, the idea of the young people being somewhere other then the church building on Sunday morning was very much frowned upon, even though I assured them that we would be participating in a Sunday morning worship service at the conference.
   Several years later, I was working at a different church in another state here in the south (the “Bible Belt”). Within that state, there was very little interaction between the youth from one church to the other; other then summer camp. I made the decision to attempt to get the youth leaders together from the other churches in our brotherhood, and plan a weekend youth conference like the one that I had been to before with other groups. I debated back and forth on the idea of just hosting the conference from Friday to Saturday afternoon, but then it was decided that the conference could have a greater impact by carrying it through to Sunday afternoon. After meeting with the youth leaders, I then took the idea for the conference to the state’s minister meeting for our brotherhood. Most of the ministers in this state were 55 or older, and I ended up receiving some criticism for the conference lasting until Sunday afternoon. I realized later that I should have mentioned to them that they could have still counted all the young people and sponsors in their Sunday count on the attendance board. To make a long story short, the conference was from Friday to Sunday, and was a success. The following year, I had gone back to the same group of ministers and said that we would like to do the conference again, but this time the idea was welcomed. I think that the men found out that we were not just gathering the young people together to play games, but that there was worship taking place over the weekend. From one year to the next, the attendance doubled. I do not take credit for the success of the conference; it was God who made it a success.
   Now in regards to the senior minister that I was working with at the church in that state…he was also one of the ones who did not like the idea of the youth worshipping somewhere else on Sunday mornings. In fact, this minister was one of the ones from which ya’ll described that believes that if the church doors are open, it is a must for the everyone in the congregation to be there. I got in trouble several times with him, b/c he firmly believed that since I was the youth pastor of the church, I should be at whatever youth function was going on at the church, with the exception (surprisingly) of the ladies meeting. Although, he did recommend that when the older ladies in the church met to go to eat one particular month, that I should go with them. I will give you an example of two of the times that I received a tongue slashing from being absent from church functions. The first one that he got upset with me about was when I was absent from a Valentine’s Dinner at the church. I am a single person and would have been the only single person at the dinner. The activities for the dinner was that they were going to play a clean version of the Newlywed Game. He made the suggestion to me that if I felt uneasy being a single person there, then I should invite a young lady that I knew, but was not really in a romantic relationship with. The other time that I wanted to mention to you that I got in trouble for missing a church function involved a steak cookout at the farm owned by one the church members. This was a men’s group function that was planned and organized by one of the elders of the church. Here is where the conflict of schedules came in: about a month prior to this event, I had been invited to be a chaplain for one of the local Boy Scouts troops. Everyone who wants to work with the Scouts as a leader is required to attend a Scoutmasters Training Program that is usually held twice a year at one of council campouts over a weekend. The STP that I needed to attend was scheduled to take place from a Friday night through Saturday afternoon. Unfortunately, this program was also taking place on the same night as the steak cookout. The elder who planned the cookout happened also to be a Cub Scout leader, and when I approached him and explained the conflict in schedule, he encouraged me to attend the STP. During the staff meeting that following Monday, the minister said that the elders and himself were highly upset that I was not at the cookout on Friday night. I did find out later that none of the elders were upset with me, b/c they knew where I was at.
   I think that one of the greatest obstacles that the church is doing battle with today is tradition. I think that traditionalism is something that Satan has used be great success even since the day that Jesus walked the Earth. The famous last words of the church, “We have never done it that way before.” I am not longer a “church” minister. I minister to different people that I am associated with, but I no longer have any desire to be in that position again. The church that I attend today worship services are very far away from your traditional services. The music is loud and very lively. What I enjoy most about the church there has nothing to do with the music style…what I enjoy about the church is that the people clearly are enjoying worship. Like I had stated before, I had worked as a paid staff member of different churches for 12 years. I have seen many of these churches attempt to develop “contemporary” worship services, but honestly there is still no life there. There is nothing sadder then listen to a group of 100 plus people sing about celebration with absolutely no joy in their voices or on their faces. I have attended too many worship services that resembled a memorial service then that of a praise service. Is it little wonder that there are those who cry out that God is dead when the people who are suppose to be celebrating life are nothing more then traditional zombies? During the summer of 1997, I attended a week long youth conference with the youth group that I was working with at the time. All week long, these youth were exposed to very energetic celebration services. The church that we attended did use the contemporary praise songs during the worship service, but there was little enthusiasm or life in the singing. We arrived home from the youth conference on Saturday afternoon. The next day, I was standing next to one of the young men who had attended the conference, and at one point he leaned over and whispered to me, “Our worship services here are dead.” What a sad sad commentary! If Jesus walked the Earth today in 2008, what type of worship style would He prefer? What type of service would He attend? Would He go to the traditional church or to the church with the bass guitar and drums? The truth is that I do not know, but something within me says that he would go to neither. He would go to where the people were…the Nascar race…the football games…the parks…the hospitals…the prisons. A part of me thinks that the preferred place of worship for Jesus would not be in a building, big or small, it would be out in the city park or on side a grassy hill. I do not know what style of worship service that Jesus would prefer, but what I do know is that whatever worship service he would be apart of would be alive. I think that one of the characteristics of Jesus that we must always remember is that Jesus was a man who enjoyed a party. It is like someone else once pointed out, why did Jesus attend the wedding where he turned the water to wine? It was not so that he could do his first miracle. It was b/c he was invited. Jesus went to the party not to preach, not heal anyone, not to perform miracles. After all if you recall he was hesitant about performing the miracle. He went to have fun. I think that Jesus took great joy in lifting the lame to their feet to watch them dance. Jesus enjoyed fellowship dinners…after all he fed the thousands. I think that Jesus rather enjoyed turning funeral services into parties. I am not by any means suggesting that all churches should throw out the old hymns, pianos, etc.; and replace them with modern praise songs by Chris Tumlin, drums, and guitars. Not everyone enjoys that style and that is fine. My thought is that what is needed most is life back inside the church.

5. Raborn
   November 26th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

   Fred,
   Thanks for listening! I appreciate your willingness to share your story with us. Sounds like you’ve had an interesting journey. Feel free to jump in the conversation any time.

6. William Tyndale
   January 27th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

   Just a thought. You might have been better to call them “traditions”. Superstition has a little more of an implied reading of one’s mind. Someone doesn’t throw salt over their shoulder just because someone else showed them to do it (tradition) but rather because they believe this ritual will produce an automatic reaction (somewhere in the cosmos) that will keep danger from them. So a superstition requires one to do some judgment of another’s thoughts. Tradition, on the other hand, is basically a superficial analysis.

   That said, tradition can become superstition.

   Just a thought.

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