Learning to Lose Control
Nov.19, 2008 in
Podcast Episodes
As Bruce Shelley states in Church History in Plain Language, “Christianity is the only major religion to have as its central event the humiliation of its God“. But, if this is so, why do believers in Jesus so frequently seek to exert power over others through politics or church hierarchies? In this episode Steve and Ray converse about learning to let go of the thirst for power and submitting to each other as Jesus taught and modeled. As always we would love your input and would enjoy dialoging with you!
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 33:30 — 23.0MB) | Embed
November 20th, 2008 at 11:40 am
You guys have gone and done it again. You’ve bought one more week of freedom from the woodpile.
November 20th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
It’s so nice to hear a Jesus-centric theology relative to what’s commonly heard. Unfortunately, all religions are abused for the purpose of power. You’re right for criticizing certain members of the modern church.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Thanks Sid. I believe that religion many times becomes a substitute for a personal relationship with God. Not only do leaders enjoy excercising their authority, but many times the followers want it that way. I think they believe that it gives them a sense of safety and security. Bono said something like “Religion is what happens when God leaves the building”. I think that there’s alot of truth to that. I hope that our conversation did not sound overly critical. We are always in danger of falling into the same ditch that we are trying to help others out of. Thanks again! 🙂
January 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Some initial thoughts on this podcast…
Scripture speaks many times about pastors being given by God. Jeremiah mentions pastors at least 7 times – including one instance (Jer 3:15) where the pastors are given BY GOD to feed the people with knowledge and understanding. And we know that Paul mentions pastors in Ephesians 4:11. So I don’t believe the name is wrong. As far as abusing authority, that is a serious situation for anyone to be in. Anyone who has authority will be answerable to God for how they have abused it since all authority is given by God. Now, when we see that men recognized Jesus’ authority by the way He spoke – and not because He said He had authority – it should cause us to realize that authority is not vested in position by the name of the title, but rather by God Himself. It is something that is recognized rather than titled. And so from that standpoint, there DOES need to be authority in an assembly. There DOES need to be a leader – someone with spiritual responsibility for the flock. Where that becomes a problem is when men who are not vested with that spiritual authority but placed in the position that requires it. They, intentionally or not, can easily become wolves. There needs to be some sort of visible leadership or certain individuals will try to take over – individuals who don’t belong in positions of spiritual authority. Bottom line, that authority is given by God and must be proven in men.
January 28th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I hope these multiple comments don’t get too old. I keep thinking there isn’t anything else I need to add and then, inevitably, something emerges.
Regarding Jesus saying that we aren’t supposed to have leadership over other believers (if that’s what you are getting at), I don’t believe that is a faithful rendering of Mark 10:37-45. While in one sense, it is certainly saying that we shouldn’t “exercise lordship” over others (it is debatable that He was just speaking about the disciples), that doesn’t negate hierarchy or authority. It stems from James and John vying for position. They want to rule over others. Jesus’ response was not that there won’t be rulers, but rather that those that are going to be in authority should make themselves as nothing and not seek to be in authority but let the Spirit of God work through them as God wills. So in one sense, Jesus is our only leader, but on the other hand, as those who bear His authority (as proven, not degreed) exercise authority, we need to recognized that it comes from Him. Not all are leaders in that sense. Not all are teachers. Not all are pastors. For a sheep to take a shepherd’s role is not right.
But this is, again, all framed in who distributes authority. Our submission one to another is based in our recognizing the authority of Christ being exercised through another believer. But much more to those who are PLACED in authority in a more visible sense. They receive the greater judgment because of their visibility.
Maybe a fine point, but it can make the difference between someone submitting to a pastor or deciding to reject his authority. If a believer is in a position of authority (in an institutional and hierarchical way because of their degree etc…), are we any less supposed to submit to them if they are genuinely believers? Do we not judge them by refusing to remain under the authority they exercise as believers? In other words, if submission is one to another, should we NOT submit to another just because they don’t want to submit to us?