Beyond the Box

5 Comments on “The End Doesn’t Justify the Means”

1. Rodney
   June 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

   Hey guys, sorry for my absence in the posting section here for the last couple of weeks. I’ve been listening, but had nothing significant to add to the conversations. We’re also remodeling our kitchen right now and that has kept me fairly well occupied.

   The shorter format is certainly more convenient (which I like), but I’m not sure if it gives you guys the time necessary to really expand on your ideas (or maybe it just gives you less time to stray off-topic).

   When I moved to FL 8 years ago I was certainly a strong “conservative” Christian. Then I met a man who I now work with frequently who is a flaming liberal. Through the years we’ve had some interesting conversations about what bothers him about conservative Christianity. One of the things that he mentioned was the hypocritical nature of pro-lifers – how they can seemingly care so much for an unborn life (the debate being is this a person yet. When does life begin?) and yet through their actions care so little for the actual living (about whom there is no debate). The murder of an abortion doctor is just such a case. How can someone who claims to be pro-life (one who values the life of a person) take the life of another human? It’s beyond oxymoronic and leaps straight to hypocritical. It’s no wonder people view Christians in such a negative light.

   Another example from a few years ago was the case of Terry Schaivo. She was the lady (here in FL) who was brain dead and living on life support whom the husband claimed wanted to be allowed to die and yet the family wanted to keep her alive. Pro-lifers came out in force to show support for the family and yet they seemed to ignore the apparent (though possibly inconclusive) wishes of Terry to be allowed to die. Where are the life-affirming qualities in being a brain dead vegetable? It was obvious that the family wanted to keep Terry alive not because of their strong convictions of the value of life. No, instead they simply weren’t ready to let go. The debate was about the family, not about Terry. I was sickened by what I saw in that debacle (I helped cover the case for a major news network).

   The same arguments can be made for assisted suicide, legalization of marijuana for medical purposes and many other cases that deal with the “quality” of life of those who are alive and with us now. These should be the concerns to all those who call themselves “pro-life”. Pro-life is much more than being concerned over the future of an unborn fetus, however there are political forces that wish to keep the debate at that level.

2. Big C
   June 5th, 2009 at 11:34 am

   Steve I have to take a bit of an issue with your “Walk in love” on the xbox. You were aggressive back. You were religioulsy emotionally violent. So he used expletives and you used religion – it was the same intention and action. You have hit a sore spot with me so please understand I am not raging at you personally or that everything here is anger.

   I finally am able to put my finger on why I hate the christian anti-violence message. Its becasue most christians – including you from your xbox story – preach love and non violence and then us “God bless you” and forgiveness as a weapon. You even say you imagine it pissed him off. I didn;t hear the love in your telling of the story.

   From all of the stories written about Jesus you don’t seem him react in this fashion. When seriously challenged he responds like rayborn responded (and I may have the voices mixed up in my head for who said what on the show – sorry) with a direct message instead of arguing hypotheticals. Jesus didn’t go around going “I bless you” “dad blesses you” except when they sneezed. Eh it made me laugh.

   But my point is you can talk the game all you want, but your actions specifically in the xbox story is the same as if you cussed them back, or hit someone who hit you.

   Now I do agree that you guys both walk in love most of the time, and I can agree with you on the ends do not justify the means, but it hurt me to see you dip into religion – or at least lean on your religious crutch with the God bless you type of response. Emotional Religious Violence is stil hostile and violent.

3. Raborn
   June 5th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

   Big C,

   To clarify, it was me (Raborn) who relayed this story.

   I definitely see where you are coming from. However, let me just say that it was not my intention to simply use my response as a “jab” at him. My true intention was to “overcome evil with good”. I don’t believe that a non-violent response necessarily leads to passivity. Just as Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. did not simply sit by while injustice was being propagated, I believe that Jesus’ stance toward the world is very aggressive. I just don’t believe that His stance is a violent one. Let me explain.

   When Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount, He didn’t say if you are slapped on one cheek to simply ignore it. Instead, He said to turn the other cheek too. He didn’t say that if your enemy curses you to ignore it. Instead, He said to take an active stance of blessing toward them in response. I don’t believe that Jesus intends for us to sit idly by while evil is performed. Instead, I believe that He wants us to aggressively combat it with love and blessing.

   Now, I know that you can’t see into my heart so I hope you will trust me when I say that when I said “I forgive you” to this guy, I actually meant it. Did it make him angry at first? Probably. But, my hope was that he would hear something different than an eye-for-eye response that he was probably expecting, and maybe find himself a little closer to the Kingdom. If I failed to relay this in my telling of the story please forgive me. I’m still trying to learn how to walk in love and sometimes (probably more than I would like to think) I just get it wrong. Thanks Big C for holding me accountable.

4. Raborn
   June 5th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

   Rodney,
   Great to hear from you! Hope that kitchen remodel is going OK. 🙂

   I find the prolife issue to be an interesting one. Why is it that most people who are prolife on the issue of abortion seem to be for the death penalty and for war in places like Iraq and Afghanistan? It seems like prolifers should have a more holistic approach including affirming life in every way possible. The Terry Schaivo story was such a heart-rending thing. I really don’t know what the answer should be in a situation like that. It is so tough sometimes living in a fallen world.

5. Adrienne Larive
   May 27th, 2010 at 7:46 am

   Thanks for the nice blog. I enjoy your writing.

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