A Secure Investment
Jul.21, 2009 in
Podcast Episodes
Following some lengthy banter, a recap of the Bearcrawling episode that Steve co-hosted, and some lousy voice impressions (!!), Ray and Steve jump into a somewhat rambling discussion about security.
Riffing off of a quote by Martin Luther, the discussion covers several elements of western culture and our tendency to try to be secure in our own strength. Whether it’s financial security (i.e., retirement), insurance, or extended warranties, the question is begged of followers of Jesus: In what is your security found?
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July 21st, 2009 at 2:55 pm
It was fun listening to you both on Bear Crawling. I will enjoy having been co-host in the past tomorrow…
Warning: Seriously Long Rabbit Trail Ahead.
Insurance is nothing more then the buying and selling of risk. It’s not that a health-insurance-policy-buyer doesn’t have faith that she will be healthy, it’s that she recognizes that she has a _risk_ of becoming unhealthy. Such a risk is a financial liability. All the policy-buyer has done is paid the insurers to take that liability.
Similarly, the insurance company doesn’t have faith that the buyer will remain healthy. What they have done is statistically described the risk an individual as well as the financial cost of that risk. Then they sell a policy for more than that cost as to profit.
Insurance is best suited for risks that have a small probability but have a high cost. An individual who, if the risk is realized, would be financially ruined is protected against that small chance. The insurers, who have many clients, will not be affected because for every person who actually realizes the risk, thousands of others remained just fine.
One of the problems of health insurance, in my opinion, is that illness is not a small risk. Everyone catches minor colds, and taking care of these are often within the financial means of individuals. Catastrophic illness/injury is quite rare and is well suited to the insurance model. What I’d like to see is the separation of health care from catastrophe care.
Also, the financial ruin of disease isn’t limited to the individual afflicted – it can ruin entire families.
What were you talking about again? Oh yes: “God is not limited by your logic…”
… neither is the little blue elf in cute orange lederhosen and fishnet stockings (who’s invisible and intangible), who follows me everywhere I go, and who sometimes speaks to me in iambic heptameter with a dutch accent about website optimization. He’s clearly crazy.
Sorry, I’m in an odd mood.
July 21st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Sid, yes, I look forward to having heard you last Friday 😉
What you explained very well about the statistical risk in the insurance world is actually what we were (apparently poorly) trying to explain. Sorry if you thought we were describing something different.
Having said that, there is an element very relevant to people of faith that is not justified (in my opinion) by statistical risks. For someone who does not believe in a loving Father who provides and cares for his own, the statistical risks are quite adequate for a decision-making basis. Our issue is with those who claim faith in God, yet don’t then trust him, as evidenced by their choices of security.
So while it may seem silly to you that we would espouse such a position, and may appear that we misunderstand the point of insurance, the reality is that in our world of faith-people, it creates (in our opinion) a double-standard — a hypocrisy, if you will. As we commented, we completely understand someone from a non-faith position buying insurance for anything that they can insure. It makes perfect sense. From a faith perspective (i.e., if someone claims faith as their basis for living), it does not make sense.
As to the little blue elf, if there WERE a little blue elf, it would not make any rational sense for him to speak in iambic heptameter. Haiku is much more suitable for a little blue elf. I think it’s ridiculous that you would espouse such a belief in such a miniature creature 😉
Odd mood, or not, you rocked Bearcrawling Friday night. Fine job, my friend.
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
Hey guys,
I appreciate your open honest discussion. I know I have been struggling with the move from external religion to a true relationship with our Savior. It is interesting to see this same struggle being discussed in many different circles.
Regarding Security, I agree with your concept that we can become overly dependent on our “security” measures that we can be tempted to not trust Christ.
But I think we need to also remember that we are called to be good stewards. Instead of swinging the pendulum to totally turning our back on all security measures, I think we need to be wise stewards with what God has given us realizing that our current blessings and future security only rest in Him.
Fellow sojourner on this Great Adventure
Jeff
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
Hello Steve,
I only clarified the business of insurance to explain motivations for the two parties involved. It’s not the case that the buyer believes or, in Ray’s words, “has faith” that they will get catastrophically ill. Nor is it the case the company believes/has faith the purchaser will stay healthy. You description of insurance was fine other then what I would call a mischaracterization of the motivations involved.
From your point of view, those with faith should believe that there is no risk since your god will provide all that is needed. Thus you are correct, it makes no sense for those who truly believe this to purchase insurance. Clearly, they either don’t trust their god to provide or they want to protect what they have that is above and beyond necessity. But I still don’t think that these people “have faith” that they will have catastrophic illness, just a belief that they _might_.
I hope that clarifies what I was trying to point out.
As for the elf, she is not limited by your poetry. 😀
Thanks for the compliment. Big C and I had a great conversation, I’m just not sure that it made for an entertaining podcast. Yet people seemed to enjoy it so I’ll not worry about it. You have a much better voice for it for sure.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
Ray –
Did you go to seminary in New Orleans or serve in a church in Kenner? More later but was curious now.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:45 am
By the way – its BJ Thomas.
August 1st, 2009 at 9:51 am
Big C,
Sorry I haven’t responded before now…busy time 🙂
No, I didn’t go to seminary in NOLA or serve in Kenner. Why? My curiousity is piqued.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Steve and Ray,
I have been enjoying, as always, each and every one of your Podcasts. As well, I listened to your Podcast over at BearCrawling, that you both did with Big C a few weeks ago. Well done! I get so much from you both. I know that I rarely comment, simply b/c I do not have time. Nevertheless, I download ALL of your podcasts, and have listened to all of them many times.
In any case, I know BOTH of you are so busy, with families, Ray – working at the book store, and Steve – the theater and also teaching at the university.
But, will you be posting a Podcast this week?
I have missed having you post one. I sincerely look forward to them each week, as I listen to you both, as well as Wayne and Brad at The God Journey, each morning when I take Howie (my dog) on a walk before heading to work.
Blessings to you both,
~Amy 🙂
Walking In The Spirit
http://amyiswalkinginthespirit.blogspot.com
August 6th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Actually, Amy, Ray just emailed me today letting me know the latest episode is ready for posting, so I’ll be hopefully getting that up tonight! 🙂 Thanks for listening, and thanks for the kind words.
August 10th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Steve,
Thank you for your “reply” comment!
Just this morning, as I was taking Howie for his walk before work, I just listened to your latest (“The Power of Words/Potpouri #1”) and I loved it. I amglad you covered a “mish-mash” of topics on it. I am also looking forward to the “2nd” on this topic.
Blessings,
~Amy 🙂
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
You two will love this then: https://www.guideone.com/AutoHomeLife/faithguard_index.htm. That’s right, it’s a religious insurance company complete with special benefits for believers!
Incidentally, they recently lost a law suite for discriminating against nonbelievers. That’s how I came across this. I immediately thought of this episode of BtB.
October 7th, 2013 at 12:27 am
Wow! Incredible stuff.
Y’all mentioned a recurring theme that seems to pop is the intensity in which the institutional church setting focuses SO much on the “by and by,” “I’ll Fly Away,” “When the Roll Up Yonder,” ad infinitum ad nausium, and so very little on the “here and now” as Jesus seemed to do. Here is my take on why:
Having discovered the mistranslations of some key words, one especially, I did a word search through the New Testament for “eternity” and “eternal.” Using Young’s Literal Translation, I discovered every time those two words showed up it was translated from the word “aon.” (I may not have the right tense, or whatever, but I think you get where I am going with this.) The actual translation is “age-during,” or “of the age,” or several variations of that.
What prompted me do do the search in the first place was the comment someone made to me that “Christ talked more about hell than heaven.” Well, if you read any major translation today with “aon” being rendered “eternal” or “eternity” it would certainly appear to be true. However, rendered as “age-during” all those verses (and there are a LOT of them) take on completely different meanings. (Consider how different reading John 3:16 is with the correct rendering!)
By the way, not only the Gospels, but all the writers of the New Testament when using “aon” were translated as “eternal” or “eternity.” Not only was Jesus focusing primarily on the here and now and NOT the heavenly by and by targeted by current Christianity, but all the NT writers were, as well.
Just my thoughts.