Join Steve on Bearcrawling TONIGHT!
Jul.10, 2009 in
General Info, Guest Appearances
Tonight (July 10) at 9:30 PM Eastern, Steve will be guest co-hosting Bearcrawling, hosted by the wonderful Big C. Join us for an unscripted two hours of fun. You can join in via chat or Skype or phone, if you’d like, too. Go to bearcrawling.com or ustream.tv/bearcrawling to listen/watch or participate.
Hope to see you all there!
(The episode will be available for download from Bearcrawling at some point in the future if you can’t make it tonight.)
July 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Heard you guys on BEAR CRAWLING great show. Still pretty hot topic about use of force. I understand your view , but I think the view of dropping the two bombs on Japan is not a just view. It was not desired, Hitler and The Emporer Of Japan sought out war and destruction. President Truman didn’t want to drop the bomb but wanted to end the war. Our forces even when bombing tried their best to hit strictly military targets. Now the atom bomb can’t be used as a surgical strick weapon. But America drop one and waited Japan still did not surrender then we dropped the other one. And guess what the Emporer was surrendering and some of his own military forces tried to stop him. We America did not seek war. I do believe that WWII was truly america’s last just war that the wars being fought now even though I have family that are veterans of every war or so called police action in our country the ones after WWII are for our Interest or current possible terrorist acts. Also The Nephalim the angels sleeping with the daughters of Eve is also from the book of Enoch feel free to research that book and one man who is a expert in language of the old the ancient scripture and text and languege meaning and translations is Michael S. Heiser. His website is his name one word no periods .com It will also cover psalm 82 which is the actual psalm Big C was trying to remember and It God stand in the devine councel and passes judgement upon the little gods. Michael heiser covers this so does Thomas Horn. Any way one last thing I have not heard anyone answer directly in regards to christian passivism. If some one had broken in your house and was getting ready to harm your wife or children life threating harm would you use force to stop them? It takes time for police to get their and they usually show up after the fact. You guys keep up the great work loved the Big C show.
July 13th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Stan, the question you ask near the end is one that often gets brought up in any discussion related to pacifism. I will give you my answer (speaking only for myself), but will also ask a follow-up question in return.
As for me, I would give my life defending my wife and children. But I do not believe that offense is necessarily defense. And the bottom line is that I firmly believe that in any situation that may arise, the spirit of God can give us guidance in how to handle it, even in a split-second.
My return question, though, is what basis (scriptural or otherwise) there is for using force to stop someone from doing something. Everything that we have recorded about Jesus speaks to a non-violent reaction. Even when one of his disciples (Peter) used violent force to try to prevent Jesus from getting arrested, Jesus rebuked him and told him to put away his sword, and healed the injured party!
So on what basis would a forceful or violent reaction be justified?
Thanks for listening!
July 13th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Thanks for the response. And I am going to do some homework (pray will also be involved) and I am going to respond to your question. And probably stumble upon some new questions as that seems to be the way these things go whenever I go digging into the word. can’t wait for the next show listen to you guys later.
July 22nd, 2009 at 12:05 am
Steve I have my answer to your question. What basis scriptural or otherwise for using force to stop someone from doing something. I will give the Bible book chap and verse. but I will give a quick paraphrase on it as I wrote this reply out wanting to at least have a rough outline of my thoughts and it turned out to be 5 pages long. (WHEW!) I would then give my conclusion but its the same one I already have and have left in a previous comment. But I can respond to Jesus healing of the ear. And point out were Jesus takes a diffrent approach to force.And I don’t mean the use of a whip in the temple. first the ref..1)Leviticus chap 20 V 1-5 Those who worship Molech and give their children to him are ordered by God to be put to death. 2)Genesis chap 14 V 12-16 Abraham then Abram gathers his posse of 318 trained men to go save Lot and all his goods and some other folks. God didn’t seam to mind.
3)Numbers chap 25 V6-18 Eleazar son of Aaron rams a spear through 1 Isrealite man and 1 Midianite woman during a assembly. probably a shock to the assembly. Was rewarded by God for his zeal. 4) 1 Samuel well the book had many.. God orders the wiping out of the Amalekites, Samuel actually hacks King Agag to death..We know why and David takes down a giant and much much more. 5) Luke chap 22 V 35-36 Jesus tells his apostles that unlike last time he sent them out this time take a money bag, travel bag, and if you don’t have a sword sell your robe and buy one. I imagine he knew conflict was on the way after his work was done. All though many of the twelve decided to drink from the same cup that he did. maybe all twelve I don’t know about some of the other I guess lesser known members. 6) Hebrews chap 11 V 30-34 gives a discription of things done by faith in God some of these people are listed a few are of the warrior use of force type Samson, David etc.. Exodus chap 15.3 Yahweh is a man of war. their are a few others on some of Gods nature. I think since we are made in his image that we of course bare many of his qualities. But I also come across many words that support what you said to. the chief one i think is. Romans chap 13 V 10 Love does no wrong to a nieghbor. Love is therefore the fullfillment of the law.
Now about the ear. Jesus healed that ear because he was sent to pay a price for our redemption. Any one who would have fought to stop his sacrifice and fullfilling of scripture was acting against his mission. He healed the ear to ease a suffering and demonstrate that offensive action should not be taken to save him. Now later on in the book of Revelations in chap 19 V 11-16 these verse paint a much diffrent picture of our Lord. One of the warrior. Clearly we all should seek the Lords will before we act with force but it is clear that he does have us use force at times and only he truly knows if we are right when we did it or wrong. or most times just confused and scared lashing out like a wounded animal. Thats why he judges justly he knows. I had fun with this little project I may do it again with another one of your questions again.
July 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 am
Stan, glad you had fun with it!
I enjoyed reading your response, too. I certainly don’t mind you coming to a different conclusion, especially if you’ve put this much thought into it.
We did address the Luke passage in a previous comment thread, although I don’t recall off the top of my head which one. In that thread, I believe we brought up the context of that chapter and how it appears to be related to his arrest that would happen very shortly afterward. Interestingly, as you said, there is no record of any of the disciples actually following this instruction of Jesus. So maybe we don’t understand what he was saying and/or have it recorded incorrectly for us. Especially since it seems contradictory to what he taught in the rest of his life.
I don’t have a direct answer to the Hebrews passage, other than that whether or not God instructed his people to act a certain way under the Old Covenant, we no longer live under that covenant. We live under a New Covenant, one which elsewhere in the book of Hebrews is demonstrated to be a superior covenant. Therefore, I hesitate to draw any application toward the use of violence from Old Covenant passages.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for taking the time to consider the question. May your tribe increase, albeit non-violently 😉 hehe
November 11th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Wow! What a blog. You have a real knack for making a blog readable and easy on the eyes. I am always interested in reading other sites about religion, they give me a lot to consider. I don’t have time to read all the information you have right now, I found this site when looking for something else on Bing, but I’ve bookmarked your homepage and will check back soon to see your latest thoughts. What is your preferred translation of the Bible? I think they are all good, don’t really have a preferred one myself. I have a blog with scripture and related art on it. Please visit it – it as at http://www.GotTB.com. God’s Peace!