A White Flag for Christmas Crusaders
It’s that time of year when evangelicals start complaining about a “War on Christmas”–the alleged attempt by the evil liberals to steal the baby Jesus out of the manger and replace him with a Richard Dawkins book.
Well, since it’s what evangelicals are doing, Ray and Steve have something to say about it! 😉 And thus, we present to you an episode very much appropriate to this time of year. Is there really a war on Christmas? Does that even make sense? Does it matter if someone says, “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”?
Ray and Steve take a look at some of the ironic scenarios this all leads to. And with that, we bid our listeners a temporary farewell until early 2010. Have a wonderful Christmas if you celebrate Christmas, a happy holiday if you celebrate something other than Christmas, or just a great time if you celebrate none of the above! 🙂
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:00:09 — 41.3MB) | Embed
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Hey Guys!!!! Good podcast. I was just complaining about some of the angry “Christians” who are mad about all their shopping malls and stores saying Happy Holidays. Focus on the Family has some videos out to get their folks to boycott those stores. It’s so silly, and in NO WAY resembles the heart of God. GAG! Actually, we need to write to these folks, who could be doing something helpful and good for society, if they feel they must…. but this isn’t it.
It’s outright OFFENSIVE!
Also, thank you, someone else enjoyed the SING-OFF. I don’t watch much TV, but we fell into this one by accident and LOVED every minute of it.
As for me, I haven’t been out shopping at all, other than for groceries. So, I am Merry. Thanks guys for some good conversations, and hope to have more this next year!!!!!!
Heather
December 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Hey I couldn’t help but notice you mention there is possibly no better way to offend a jew by saying merry christmas. But at the end of your show you wish your christian brothers a merry christmas. Now I don’t think you mean offense and I find you guys to be very loving and accepting, but you ignored all of your other listeners/brothers. I did expect a happy huanaka for your jewish friends and an A salaam a lakim for those who wish peace. Or something. In my ears you kinda did a backhanded exclusion un-intentionally of everyone who isn’t your christian brother. Just sayin. Love you guys.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Big C, I always appreciate your comments. You might want to listen again to the last 3 minutes or so. I specifically said that no matter what holiday people are celebrating, I hope it’s a darn good one.
The Christmas greetings to our Christian listeners was after that comment. It was quite inclusive, even if we didn’t take the time to list all the other holidays. And the way we did it was actually quite in line with the point of the episode.
Take another listen to the end and see if you hear it differently.
Peace!
December 24th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Big C,
I realize that you are probably speaking mainly in regards to Steve’s comments in this episode. Steve has already spoken for himself, but I would like to give my take on it.
I think that your comment actually reflects what I am so frustrated about in this whole “war on Christmas”. One of the points I was trying to make during this episode was that no one should be forced into saying something that they don’t mean with their heart. This was the point I was trying to make by using an illustration drawn from a “gay pride day.”
Please do not mistake my part in this episode for political correctness or syncretism. While I appreciate and respect everyones right to celebrate what they want, this respect does not translate into my joining them in their celebration. I do not expect non-Christians to wish me a “Merry Christmas.” As a Christian, how can someone expect me to wish a Hindu a “Happy Divali?” Does being someones friend or loving someone necessitate participation in their religious rituals?
I hope this makes sense 🙂
December 25th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
A P.S. to my original reply to Big C. Read the description of the episode here on the website, and notice how I worded all of that. Personally, I think that we did an adequate job of showing inclusivity without being fake about it or without, as Ray has mentioned in his comment above, saying something that we can’t ourselves say with integrity.
I’m not sure what you heard when you listened, but the more I listened to this episode and read my synopsis here on the site, the more I am perplexed by your comment.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:39 am
Hey we all filter things through our own experiences in life and maybe the episode went through my church/religious/christmas filter since most people who discuss this topic honestly fall into that category. I almost automatically respond to inclusion discussions with a microscope and tend to nitpick. As I read back and see your responses I think my response was only 50% honest probably.
I tend to accept all people no matter where I stand and I find that most christians want all to come to them. That is the thought I started to come from in this discussion. However christmas is a bad time for me and the religious nuts tend to come out at that time and I over act mostly.
I know you guys are very open and I never think either of you are politically correct or I would blatantly call you on it. But you are my “Church” so to speak (Its a paul timothy kind of thing) so just know that I take all of the ideas to heart and challenge those that I don’t understand. I am the first to say I am not always right and can rethink positions.
On a different note I have a question here to Rayborn: What’s wrong with meeting someone where they are? Unless “Happy Divali” has some specificly deep religious meaning like “I will pray for you” in christian means you believe certain things whats wrong with wishing to them? I love A salaam a lakim in truth because in truth it means you wish peace for me and that is special. But just like “bless you” and “have a blessed day” in the south are just crap religious coverings for fake salutations so can any other cultural/religious greetings/sayings.
As a Christian I would wish a happy haunaka, divali, holiday, christmas, ect. to any who wanted it because I want happiness and peace for you and your house where you are not where I am.
And to touch on the “I do not expect non-Christians to wish me a ‘Merry Christmas.’ As a Christian, how can someone expect me to wish a Hindu a ‘Happy Divali?'” 1) I thought you guys did a phenominal job on pointing out christmas isn’t christian in the slightest so whats the religious point here? 2) Why would you “expect” anything form anyone or act as was expected from you because your a “Christian?” – Unless I am totally wrong about you personally Ray and your podcast thats not what you do anyway so the question/phrasing here had me question it a bit.
I know I am a thorn in your side sometimes and I never mean to perplex or offend. Not all questions and comments come from a good place in my life, but no matter where they come from I have a million questions and like you I’m just talking it out.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:49 am
Big C: you are definitely NOT a thorn here and your thoughts are always welcome. 🙂 I definitely understand responding through filters and I’m continually working on recognizing my own.
So glad to have you along for the ride here. 🙂