Holiness, Mercy, and More!
Jun.27, 2012 in
Podcast Episodes
Prompted by a recent discussion on the Facebook page, Steve and Ray dialog about ideas surrounding how we understand holiness and mercy. Are holiness and mercy opposed or could they be synonymous? Are holiness and mercy competing characteristics within God or manifestations of the same desire? What does the “more” in the title refer to? Take a listen and find out!
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June 28th, 2012 at 8:58 am
It took me a few episodes to realize that podcasts can be played at 2x speed. It’s great! Twice as efficient, and Ray (especially) sounds twice as excited. Again, thanks for doing these.
June 29th, 2012 at 8:56 am
Guys, I felt blessed by this podcast. Like you said, you are sharing your journey. THIS is what keeps me being a Christian! Thanks for sharing.
July 9th, 2012 at 9:13 am
When Ray shared Peter Collins’ thoughts on a christian becoming an atheist … it brought back images of a few summers ago when I would walk through a neighborhood on my way home from work. There was this house that was being torn down with the plan of building a new one in it’s place. The sign in the yard read, “Deconstruction – Reconstruction” (Habitat for Humanity). At the time, I was wondering if that wasn’t happening to me with leaving institutional Christianity and “exploring the wide open spaces of life in Christ outside the institution.” That’s exactly what’s been happening. 🙂
July 9th, 2012 at 9:31 am
Judy
I would love to hear more about how leaving institutional Christianity and “exploring the wide open spaces of life in Christ outside this institution” exactly works. I have always felt the tension of believing what I believe and finding that my ideas resonate with aspects of beleif in various Christian institutions. For example, I am very interested in Benedictine spirituality and am thinking of becoming an oblate. It’s not a prerequisite for me to be a Roman Catholic – an institution I left years ago. The practical applications of the Christian life can be found in the wisdom of the Roman Catholic monastic orders (examples are figures like Thomas Merton, Henri Nouwen, the Benedictines, etc.) which seem to contradict the overall orthodoxy of the Vatican and traditional Catholic dogma. These figures do not really contradict the Roman Catholic way of seeing the Christian life, and their views reveal how the Roman Catholic tradition allows room for these thoughts. Of course, there are those dissenters within the tradition, and I gravitate toward them, too. I find the same tension in evangelical churches I have frequented. I attend a Vineyard church because I like the “low church” approach but I don’t like the orthodoxy and latent fundamentalism that is there. I also went to a United Chruch of Christ which is progressive, which didn’t seem orthodox enough. It all seems to come down to community. Is it possible to be in a community in which diversity is respected and allowed? My search for God, too, has made me less and less a theist. It seems that I don’t want to talk about God anymore. I feel that God is present so much all the time, I don’t need to constantly draw attention to it. The goal for me ultimatly is to live my life with compassion, love, sincerity, and gratitude, that the garments of institutional religion seem superfluous to me. However, all I find is another type of institution in community. How do we differentiate institution from community?
July 9th, 2012 at 10:36 am
Matteo, I appreciate all you shared. I have been in various “streams” since becoming a follower of Christ 30+ years ago. All seemed relevant at the time, and I cannot imagine how I would have “grown” in my “sanctification” otherwise (another question I still have), but, now I just find myself not wanting any part of insitutional forms of meeting together, etc., etc. And so your question, “How do we differentiate institution from community?” … I’m not sure. That’s something I have yet to figure out and/or discover. For now, though, I’m content to just listen and observe (TheGodJourney, BeyondTheBoxPodcast, IntoTheWild), while working a full time job within a University community. That actually takes up quite a bit of my time, and so at times, I sometimes think to myself, “Perhaps when I get out of ‘the workforce’ I’ll have more time and opportunity to discover what this community thing (in Christ) is really all about.” (?)
July 9th, 2012 at 11:39 am
Judy, thanks for the reply and I understand your thoughts. For myself, I am comfortable in most church settings, except when the preacher/priest/pastor pulls out the judgement card. Then I know it’s my time to leave. My issue is really with the notion of authority. I respect the office of a Catholic priest and accept the role the pastor plays, but I pick and choose when it comes to what is preached. That’s my limit to their “authority”. I also do not accept the authority of institutions, be they liberal, progressive, conservative, or orthodox. It all seems so depersonalizes and well, satanic, to me. I also listen to the podcasts you mentioned and enjoy them. Also, the process of me dehumanizing God has made God more accessible to me. I don’t know if that makes any sense. I feel that God is free to be God and I’m free to be in “his” presence all the time. Institutional religion, even with it’s doctrine and dogma, seem to act as a barrier for me in having a relationship with God. However, I feel that having personal relationships under the umbrella of the institution is important to me. I see proof of God as in the natural world – a world of simultaneous complexity and simplicity, and of relationship. I see God in other people. I see God in myself. That leaves very little room of dogma and the “isms” and theories of doctrines an so-called proofs of the belief. God (and Christ) is right here, right now in the conversation I’m having with you. That being said, it’s more real than any eschatological theory.
July 9th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
I’m with you Matteo, totally with you. I do desire community – just not sure what exactly that means, what it looks like, or what He intends. I’m content to no longer strive for it, though. “Living loved and letting life unfold” is my current direction. 🙂
July 9th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Re Benedictinitis, I considered going even one step further than the vow of chastity (6th century Monte Cassino rule book) by becoming a eunuch for the Lord. I could do this operation in my own garage with some Black and Dekker tools I got for Christmas. Then I thought about relationships with family like my daughter, so I put the idea on hold. But then I thought about my son … yup it’s off to the garage again.
On a lighter note, the following is just my heretical version of church authority that I have spewed on posts elsewhere. It appears that a different system might have been envisioned by Jesus, one where each believer equally participates (Luke 22: 25, 26). The Corinthian Church (mid-50s AD) seemed to be operating along these lines. By the end of the first century however, Rome and other areas now had an official bishop who acted as the church’s spokesman (letter of Clement to the Corinthians). About this time, a system was beginning to evolve where there was a distinct clergy (spiritual elite) and a laity (the dumb sheep with sh!t for brains). The New Covenant life seemed to be regressing back to the OC. But the clergy was not alone in this matter, and the laity had their role to play by initially accepting and later relying on this two tiered system.
Some may reference the two Tim books in support of the idea for a clergy. There are a few scholars that feel the pastoral letters as we have them today were edits from the early second century since the “pastoral components” are more consistent with second century patterns than with those in Paul’s undisputed letters. Unfortunately without the autograph no one can prove this either way.
Although Rome collapsed in the fourth century, its governmental system lived on in the church organization and the basics of this system are still very much alive today. I often wonder how much more relevant Christianity would be today if a different system (i.e. community of all believers) had been pursued over the last 2K centuries.