Comments for Beyond the Box

Comment on Leaving the Institution by Is the Institution Bad? | Beyond the Box

Is the Institution Bad? | Beyond the Box — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:00:15 +0000

[...] Leaving the Institution [...]

Comment on Idea Submission by Raborn

Raborn — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:49:26 +0000

Good question Chip We’ll try to do an episode discussing this in the very near future. That might be a good opportunity to open up some dialog on the subject too!

Comment on Idea Submission by Chip

Chip — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:56:18 +0000

Beyond the box, beyond traditional or institutional church, beyond “house church” even, how do the offices of apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, preacher, etc. work? What do they look like. What have you experienced in your journey? I mostly hear my simple church type friends talking about informal fellowship times like your weekly breakfasts together or a potluck supper get together that’s way informal. Just wondering… It’s hard to see these “church jobs” outside of what I’ve always known.

Peace to you, brothers.

Comment on God’s Punishment or Satan’s Defeat? Part 2 by Dwight P

Dwight P — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:16:22 +0000

Thanks Raborn. Appreciate the comments. Makes sense. It really helps reconcile that tension between the Father (bad cop) and Jesus (good cop). I will continue to noodle on this. We see through the glass darkly. It is good to challenge our thinking.

Comment on Merry Christmas! by jadasgigi

jadasgigi — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:23:00 +0000

Merry Christmas, guys!

Comment on God’s Punishment or Satan’s Defeat? Part 2 by Raborn

Raborn — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:01:47 +0000

Dwight,
Thanks for joining the conversation!

Here is one of the accounts in the Gospel of Luke of satan tempting Jesus.
“The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, ‘I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours.’
Luke 4:5-7NIV

Now the interesting thing is that Jesus did not challenge this. So who gave away this authority to satan? We did, in Adam and Eve, who I would say were the “federal heads” of the human race. Just as you cannot pick and choose the genes that you inherit from your parents, we did not have a choice in the decisions that our ancestors made which have led to negative consequences for the entire human race.

Jesus also describes the Pharisees as the “children of the devil”. Why would Jesus do this? How did they become such?

I believe that satan had a legal right, in the same way that Adam did, to dominion over everything on planet earth. God gave mankind authority over everything upon the earth in the beginning, and I believe that man turned this authority over to the devil in the garden when they rebelled against God, and instead chose to put their trust in the devil’s words.

I don’t believe that God had to do anything about this. But, because of His great love for us, I believe that He decided to redeem us out from under the “kingdom of darkness” (Colossians 1:13). Since God is a just God, I believe that He decided to “play by the rules”; that is to honor the freewill humanity, and therefore treat satan as if he did have authority over this planet. Paul bears this out when he refers to satan as the “god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4). In order to regain the comprised authority rightfully, Jesus came to earth as a man in order “undo the works of the devil”. The Bible says that “had the princes of this world known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory”. Why not? Because Jesus’ death and resurrection meant that the old dynasty was over and God’s kingdom was breaking into this world in order to restore, first humanity, and then the entirety of creation. What do you think?

Comment on Leaving the Institution by Raborn

Raborn — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:40:05 +0000

Alan,
Thanks for listening! True that it’s function over form!

Comment on Leaving the Institution by Alan Knox

Alan Knox — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:26:24 +0000

Steve and Raborn,

I finally started listening to your podcasts. I listened to 6 of them on our drive from NC to AL. Very good stuff! I’ve had the opporutnity to have similar conversations regularly with coworkers and friends. What a blessing it is to be able to talk through these issues in freedom and love and fellowship.

As for this last podcast, I appreciate your heart in answering the questions you were asked. Our relationship with God which is demonstrated in our relationships with other people must be paramount. If something (institution, meeting type, leadership, etc) hinders the people of God from relating to one another, then those things must change.

Thanks again, and I’m looking forward to future podcasts!

-Alan

Comment on God’s Punishment or Satan’s Defeat? Part 2 by Dwight P

Dwight P — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:01:55 +0000

I am just discovering the site and like the conversation. This pair of episodes really provoked some good thinking. I wondered if you could expand on how Satan was ‘legally’ over the earth and Adam’s descendants.

The idea that Jesus paid a ransom to Satan rather than God is really interesting. But that would mean that Satan had some type of legal right that had to be satisfied by God. I’m wondering what that might be.

Just thinking out loud, if Satan knowingly rebelled from God and God judged his action maybe there was something about his coming judgment that God declared. For example, you and all who follow you in rebellion will be cut off from me. Therefore to rescue us, God had to satisfy the judgment or debt. Jesus was wrongly killed by virtue that He had never sinned.

A bit of babbling. But I am trying to think through how God was obligated to Satan. The other side of the coin is the ‘just’ nature of God. That is where most traditional thinking comes from. God had to satisfy His justice.

Your conversation opens up a different path. Appreciate your thoughts.

Comment on Leaving the Institution by Raborn

Raborn — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:24:24 +0000

Thanks everyone!
Scott,
I don’t think that the institution is “without merit” completely in that I do believe that good happens within this structure. However, the question I ask is not simply utilitarian or pragmatic. I want to know if what we have today as the “church” is truly God’s intention and this is where I begin to have my doubts. I think that the institution has done and continues to do alot of good in spreading the Gospel and helping the downcast. I just think that we could be alot more effective if we got rid of man-made control structures and actually operated as the family that, I believe, God intended the Body of Christ to be.
Sid,
I’m glad this resonated with you. I think that alot of people have felt this way, but are hesitant to talk about it for whatever reason. I believe that many confuse God with religion and, in their distaste for the latter, end up walking away from them both. I don’t think it has to be that way.
Big C,
Keep on following the Father in whatever He leads you to do to grow in your relationship with Christ!
Ben K,
I am glad that you have a great relationship! I have often heard ministers say that they believe people get more out a small group gathering, and yet this is the exception within the institution instead of the rule. Why is it that we continue to perpetuate practices that even the leaders see as less effective? Anyway, I hope that this episode helped and I pray that whatever decisions you make you will sense the Father’s peace in them!

Everyone,
I am so thankful for each of you and for your taking the time to listen to two “everyday Joes” talk about subjects important to us! I am really enjoying being able to “think out loud” through this medium. In the past, I would have been more guarded about what thoughts I “let out of the bag”, but I am finding that the best way to think these things through is simply to let what is running around inside my head out there for people to ponder and critique. This is a growing experience for me!