Thanks Kevin for talking with us. We look forward to the movie!

Visit Michael Hardin’s website preachingpeace.org and check out the book Compassionate Eschatology.

To download these tracks below, if you wish, right-click on the link and select “Save Link As…” (or similar command).

What Child Is This?
Silent Night
Away in a Manger

Ray and Steve discuss this question and the need for real-life relationships to be a part of anything taking place in the kingdom.  Your thoughts in response are welcome either here or on the Facebook page.

Michael Hardin’s Negative and Positive Mimesis Chart

After talking about the etymology of hell and the two traditions surrounding the word “gehenna”, Brad and Ray continue by talking about the location of the wicked in Revelation 21-22, what to make of near-death experiences and visions of hell, listener questions, and much more. Thanks again to Brad for taking the time to join us for this conversation. Make sure to visit Brad’s website and check out his book Her Gates Will Never Be Shut.

More than just a response to the Jersak episodes, the conversation takes a lot of turns and covers various topics.  Enjoy!

While Ray and Steve attempted to record their reactions and thoughts on the entire interview at the conclusion of the episode, they ended up recording for quite a while, so their fuller thoughts and reactions will appear next time in an episode of their own, but in the meantime, you are welcome to comment yourself on all that is shared here.

You are welcome to visit Brad at his website (bradjersak.com). We so appreciate Brad’s time in coming on the show, and look forward to another interview that will be posted sometime in the future where Ray and Brad talked about Brad’s book “Her Gates Will Never Be Shut”.

Bringing insight to some passages that are often skimmed over, Brad shares thoughts about the atonement that are sure to make you think! While the Penal Substitution theory of the atonement posits that the Father poured all of his wrath out on his own Son during the crucifixion, Brad offers thoughts that maintain a consistency between a Father who is very loving and compassionate and a Son’s death that is brutal and violent.

Isaiah 53 says that we esteemed him (Jesus) stricken by God. In other words, it appears that is not the correct view, but rather our misunderstanding of what took place.  That phrase serves as the basis for Brad’s book and this discussion.

In a very friendly conversation between Preston and Steve, the topics of hell and Ultimate Reconciliation are explored even further, but with the added enjoyment of slightly different perspectives and mutual pushbacks. Hoping to model a very civil dialog about a very sensitive subject, Preston and Steve dig into several key passages in the discussion and challenge each other in an effort to pursue proper exegesis of the passages at hand.

A very special thank you to Preston for coming on to the podcast, even though he knew from listening to our critique episodes that we didn’t agree with his and Francis Chan’s conclusions! It is our prayer that, even when disagreeing with each other, all of us in the body of Christ can approach subjects like this with friendliness and mutual respect.

Despite the fact that the Athanasian Creed neither has a definite origin (although most agree that Athanasius did not write it), nor was mentioned by or sanctioned by any official council, its language has been used throughout the centuries as a “litmus test” for salvation and orthodoxy.

Some would claim that this doctrine is clearly visible in Scripture, just not by name. Others would say that it is a doctrine derived from Scripture, but not clearly taught in Scripture.

In this episode, Ray and Steve discuss the ramifications of this doctrine and its emphasis as a test of orthodoxy.  Should a doctrine that is not even clearly preached by the apostles be considered a test of any sort?  Must one understand and embrace this doctrine in order to be saved?

Picking up where the last episode ended, the discussion ranges from different ways of looking at the term “gehenna” to concern over the way that Chan dealt with “frequently asked questions” in his book. This discussion demonstrates that one’s view of the Father, view of the atonement, and view of hell are all intertwined.

While Ray and Steve are critical of much in Francis Chan’s book, you are encouraged to read the book yourself and draw your own conclusions. Feel free to discuss your thoughts in the comments section below.

Once the book was released, however, we read it, and are now ready to respond to the actual content of the book.  (Please note that in the episodes responding to the video, we tried very hard to stay within the confines of only responding to what was in the video, and not what we thought Chan might write in his book.  These two episodes now are a response to what is actually in the book.)

Chan writes some things in this book that disturb Ray and Steve, and they don’t hold back too much on their opinion about those things. And while ultimately, Ray and Steve do not endorse the teaching of the book itself, you are still encouraged to read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Part 2 will be posted within a few days.  Stay tuned.

Both Ray and Steve wish to thank Sharon for taking so much time to share her thoughts with our audience. And we hope that you, our listeners, have enjoyed this new venture for Beyond the Box. If you have some suggestions of others that you’d like us to try to interview on this show, feel free to send them along or post them in the comments section here or on our Idea Submission page.

In this first part (second part will be posted within a few days), Ray and Sharon go down several rabbit trails, taking time to camp out on various topics relating to forgiveness, justice, and possible cultural impacts on the way people in the Old Testament understood God.

The situation at Elevation is merely a jumping point, however, into discussion about institutional church in general and some of the many faults that Ray and Steve find with that system.  As former pastors, both Ray and Steve share personal experiences related to their life inside the institution and their feelings experienced now from outside that institution.

More than just this story, however, the questions become more general and the rabbit trails happily lead Ray and Steve into yet another two-part episode (rapidly becoming the norm for this podcast!). Part 2 will be posted in a day or two, so check back soon!

There may be more (and possibly even different) discussion once Chan’s book comes out and we can see exactly where he goes with his thoughts.  But it is important to note that Ray and Steve are not responding to what they think Chan will write about.  They are merely responding to the actual statements made in the video.

Can we know the Father? Or is our finite, sin-infused mind incapable of knowing what God is like. When we say God is “just”, can we know what that means? Is the “justice” of God at all related to our human understanding of the concept of “justice”? Or is it in a completely different category altogether?

[A quick note of apology for the sound quality on Steve's end. Lots of distortion this time around. Sorry, folks! ]

Whether it’s because you feel like your “testimony” isn’t good enough, or because you’re in a position of power that makes you feel like you have to be more than you really are, there is a strong temptation that almost all (if not all) of us face: to make ourselves sound like more than we really are.

In the workplace, it’s called “padding your résumé”.  In Christianity, it’s called being dishonest. Lying.  For one recent pastor, it showed up as a fictional account of being a Navy Seal.  For others, it’s a temptation to impress people with the place at which we did some academic study, even if our grades were terrible when we studied there!

Ray and Steve discuss this delicate issue, complete with quite a few of their own personal anecdotes of how this temptation has surfaced, and continues to surface, in their own lives.  Far from pointing fingers at others, Ray and Steve humbly look at their own lives and discuss the need to just be who we are and not to make ourselves out to be something else.

Just 24 hours after that announcement and the ensuing events online, Ray and Steve recorded this two-part conversation about their own feelings and responses. Is there a right and wrong response for the follower of Jesus in situations such as this? Is it ok to feel discomfort at the murder of even a symbol of evil such as bin Laden? How does this all relate to the recent episodes on Ultimate Reconciliation?

Join us for perhaps our most sobering and “mellow” episodes to date, as we approach this very emotional, very sensitive topic while our own responses are still raw.

Ray and Steve conclude this three-part discussion on Ultimate Reconciliation. It may seem to some like we have hammered this entire topic well into the ground, and perhaps we have.  However, for us, this topic has become more and more relevant and important in our understanding of the big picture of our Father’s love.  The strong insistence by many on the certainty of eternal conscious torment in hell for unbelievers raises a lot of questions about the big picture.  As we have said somewhere in this discussion, it is almost scary to see some people absolutely determined to make sure hell is populated, and not populated by just a few people.

At any rate, thanks for bearing with us in this lengthy conversation.  Your comments/feedback are always welcome, even if it’s to say, “Get on with something else already, guys!” ;)  (seriously!)

Continuing on with the discussion begun in part 1, Ray and Steve continue to discuss Ultimate Reconciliation. Theories about what happens after this life (especially with regard to the notion of post-mortem salvation opportunities) often go hand-in-hand with one’s view of the atonement, and so Ray and Steve begin this part of the discussion on that note.

Somewhere along the line in this three-part discussion, Ray and Steve discuss a passage in 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul says “As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive.”  As a tangent to this discussion, if you are interested in reading more of Steve’s thoughts on this particular verse, you can read “Does ‘All’ Mean ‘All’?” — a recent post on Steve’s mostly-dormant Theological Musings blog.

Stay tuned after this episode for Part 3 which purports to be a conclusion of sorts on this topic.  Or is this 3-part series just an introduction to another 5-part series to come?  (just kidding!)

This is not the first time Ray and Steve have dealt with this topic.  Back in February, 2009, they did an episode entitled “Hell and Ultimate Reconciliation“.  (It would definitely be interesting to compare what they said two years ago with their thoughts now on the topic!) But the topic has come up again, and this time Ray and Steve couldn’t easily be stopped.  This turned out to be a three-part discussion (stay tuned for Parts 2 and 3, coming soon).

We certainly enjoyed batting around different angles on this topic, and look forward to any responses you have to them.

While this two-part episode isn’t so much about Rob Bell or his book or his orthodoxy or lack thereof, the controversy did cause us to once again explore areas of Ultimate Reconciliation vs. Annihilation vs. Eternal Conscious Torment in a lake of fire.

Many view the lack of a belief in Eternal Conscious Torment to be a diminishing of who God is, a disregard for “the clear teaching of Scripture”, and flat-out heresy (apparently worthy of said lake of fire). But Ray and Steve talk about the many verses in scripture that talk about reconciliation, discuss what the word translated as “hell” really was in the words of Jesus and in the ears of his listeners, and talk about whether or not any of the three views of eternity mentioned above can be solidly held to without ignoring other passages.

Watch for part 2 to come out in a few days, but in the meantime, enjoy the first half of the discussion!

But it was no joke.  Which got Ray and Steve thinking out loud about technology, its impact on issues of faith, its use within a faith practice, and ultimately a subject that is of prime importance with or without technology: relationships.

By the way, the blog post that Ray and Steve talk about at some point in this podcast is Multiplication Ministry and Maturity, written by Steve on his old Theological Musings blog (now largely silent and gathering dust) back in May of 2006, and linked here for your convenience if you care to read it.

Is man totally depraved? Did the Fall of man into sin completely remove any trace of the image of God within man? If man is not totally depraved, does that somehow limit the amount of glory that God receives through his creation?

“Unbuckle your seatbelts” and listen in as Ray and Steve discover things they hadn’t even thought of previously while exploring the many rabbit trails that this topic affords!

After playing a portion of an audio clip clarifying Big C’s question, Ray and Steve discuss the way that they view raising children outside of an organized “religion”, yet while modeling a faith-filled life.

Continuing the discussion regarding literal interpretations of Genesis 1-11 and other beliefs held to be essential by some for salvation, Ray and Steve wrap up the discussion started last time.  References to the end of the year and holidays reflect the intent to originally air the entire episode before the end of 2010.  Don’t worry–it’s not meant to indicate that we’re done for 2011!

There are many Christians who believe that the opening of the book of Genesis (specifically the first 11 chapters) must be interpreted literally or else it is virtually impossible to believe anything else in scripture literally.  Some would even go so far, then, to say that it is essential to believe Genesis 1-11 literally in order to be saved.

Ray and Steve use this particular example of the opening to the book of Genesis to discuss the larger issue of what beliefs should or should not be considered as absolutely essential. If a belief really is essential, Ray and Steve argue that it should, or even must, be included in any “gospel presentation”.  Usually this is not the case.

Come along for the ride, and then look for part 2 to show up soon.

Voting begins Dec 1 (today) and continues through Dec 15 at http://www.podcastawards.com. One vote per person per IP address (per day?), and you will have to confirm your vote via email.

We appreciate all of our listeners, award or no award, and if you choose to vote for us for this award, we thank you.  We’ll be coming back at ya real soon with a new episode, so stay tuned to your iTunes or feed reader!

In this episode, Ray and Steve pick up on a months-old idea submission from Chip who asked about open theology.  Thinking out loud about the concept, they discuss questions related to a God who not only may not dictate every detail of the future, but who actually might change his mind based on the decisions and actions of humans.

It’s vintage BtB, but with a new intro/outro!

Despite the country music playing in the background (and turned up quite loudly for the last part of the podcast, possibly due to some unhappy customers sitting nearby!), we hope you enjoy this conversation and the return of Ray and Steve to podcasting.

Here’s to more regular podcasts again!

We have every intention of returning to podcasting very soon, but in the meantime appreciate your patience in waiting for us to return.  We’re not entirely sure when we’ll return, but if you follow us on Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/BtBPodcast), you’ll get updated just as soon as new episodes are released.

In the meantime, keep exploring life beyond the box!

Thanks,

steve and ray

Well, there are some that say that “anarchy” can be defined in a way that actually makes the most sense of any understanding of the teachings of Jesus.

After a humble explanation of why it’s been so long since the last episode, and an update on an advancement in Steve’s music career, Ray and a slightly congested Steve discuss the concept of Christian Anarchy and how it relates to western evangelical Christianity’s quest for political power.

Thanks for waiting patiently for each episode. We appreciate each of you who are along for the ride!