Beyond the Box

In this first part of a two part episode, Ray talks with Brad Jersak about his book Her Gates Will Never Be Shut. Brad and Ray talk about the history of the Hebrew and Greek words behind the word “hell”, the development of Gehenna, and more. Brad delves into the history of our ideas about hell and offers a helpful critique of our understanding of the traditional view of hell. Thanks to Brad for taking the time once again to dialog with us on the podcast! Make sure to visit bradjersak.com and check out Her Gates Will Never Be Shut.

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What started out as a response to the Brad Jersak interviews turned into a lengthy discussion that ended up becoming an episode of its own.  If the opening sounds a little like it’s picking up in the middle of a conversation, that’s why!  Steve’s “Maaaaan, that’s good stuff” is in response to the Brad Jersak interview.

More than just a response to the Jersak episodes, the conversation takes a lot of turns and covers various topics.  Enjoy!

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In this conclusion of Ray’s 2-part interview with Brad Jersak (part 1 is here), Ray and Brad continue their discussion about the atonement, our role in the death of Jesus, the role of the Father in the death of Jesus, and the implications of atonement theory on our view of the Father as well as our understanding of salvation and reconciliation.

While Ray and Steve attempted to record their reactions and thoughts on the entire interview at the conclusion of the episode, they ended up recording for quite a while, so their fuller thoughts and reactions will appear next time in an episode of their own, but in the meantime, you are welcome to comment yourself on all that is shared here.

You are welcome to visit Brad at his website (bradjersak.com). We so appreciate Brad’s time in coming on the show, and look forward to another interview that will be posted sometime in the future where Ray and Brad talked about Brad’s book “Her Gates Will Never Be Shut”.

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Continuing in our series of guests on the podcast, Ray welcomes Brad Jersak to Beyond the Box.  This 2-part discussion revolves around the topic of a book edited by Brad entitled “Stricken by God?” which discusses atonement theories alternative to Penal Substitution.

Bringing insight to some passages that are often skimmed over, Brad shares thoughts about the atonement that are sure to make you think! While the Penal Substitution theory of the atonement posits that the Father poured all of his wrath out on his own Son during the crucifixion, Brad offers thoughts that maintain a consistency between a Father who is very loving and compassionate and a Son’s death that is brutal and violent.

Isaiah 53 says that we esteemed him (Jesus) stricken by God. In other words, it appears that is not the correct view, but rather our misunderstanding of what took place.  That phrase serves as the basis for Brad’s book and this discussion.

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While we have spent quite a few episodes on the topic of hell, and even more specifically on Francis Chan’s book “Erasing Hell”, we thought it would be very helpful to our listeners to hear more about the exegesis behind that book.  Preston Sprinkle, the co-author of “Erasing Hell” was kind enough to come on the podcast and share more thoughts on the Scripture used.

In a very friendly conversation between Preston and Steve, the topics of hell and Ultimate Reconciliation are explored even further, but with the added enjoyment of slightly different perspectives and mutual pushbacks. Hoping to model a very civil dialog about a very sensitive subject, Preston and Steve dig into several key passages in the discussion and challenge each other in an effort to pursue proper exegesis of the passages at hand.

A very special thank you to Preston for coming on to the podcast, even though he knew from listening to our critique episodes that we didn’t agree with his and Francis Chan’s conclusions! It is our prayer that, even when disagreeing with each other, all of us in the body of Christ can approach subjects like this with friendliness and mutual respect.

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The doctrine of the Trinity (the Godhead is three-in-one, comprised of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) has been considered to be “orthodox” doctrine since about the 3rd century.  Partially developed at the Council of Nicaea, it was later codified in a creed of uncertain origin, the Athanasian Creed.

Despite the fact that the Athanasian Creed neither has a definite origin (although most agree that Athanasius did not write it), nor was mentioned by or sanctioned by any official council, its language has been used throughout the centuries as a “litmus test” for salvation and orthodoxy.

Some would claim that this doctrine is clearly visible in Scripture, just not by name. Others would say that it is a doctrine derived from Scripture, but not clearly taught in Scripture.

In this episode, Ray and Steve discuss the ramifications of this doctrine and its emphasis as a test of orthodoxy.  Should a doctrine that is not even clearly preached by the apostles be considered a test of any sort?  Must one understand and embrace this doctrine in order to be saved?

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We would love to have you guys call our new phone number and leave a message saying “Hi my name is _____, and you’re listening to Beyond the Box”. We want to take these, edit them together, and use them for an intro/intermission on the podcast. Either call (626) 24-NO-BOX to leave your message, or click the “CALL ME” link on the right-hand side of our home page (beyondtheboxpodcast.com) and enter your phone number to have our voicemail call you. After you type in your phone number, our voicemail will call you back and you can leave the message. We would love to hear from you. Don’t be shy

If you haven’t already listened to part 1 of this discussion, please do so now.  Ray and Steve continue this discussion in response to Francis Chan’s book “Erasing Hell”.

Picking up where the last episode ended, the discussion ranges from different ways of looking at the term “gehenna” to concern over the way that Chan dealt with “frequently asked questions” in his book. This discussion demonstrates that one’s view of the Father, view of the atonement, and view of hell are all intertwined.

While Ray and Steve are critical of much in Francis Chan’s book, you are encouraged to read the book yourself and draw your own conclusions. Feel free to discuss your thoughts in the comments section below.

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No, this isn’t an interview with Francis Chan, although that would probably be a lot of fun! Rather, it is a lengthy critique of Chan’s new book, Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity, and the things we made up. Before this book was released, a promotional video was posted, to which we responded in part 1 and part 2.

Once the book was released, however, we read it, and are now ready to respond to the actual content of the book.  (Please note that in the episodes responding to the video, we tried very hard to stay within the confines of only responding to what was in the video, and not what we thought Chan might write in his book.  These two episodes now are a response to what is actually in the book.)

Chan writes some things in this book that disturb Ray and Steve, and they don’t hold back too much on their opinion about those things. And while ultimately, Ray and Steve do not endorse the teaching of the book itself, you are still encouraged to read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Part 2 will be posted within a few days.  Stay tuned.

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In this episode, after a brief introduction by Ray and Steve, Ray concludes his interview with Sharon Baker. Beginning where they left off last time talking about the atonement, Ray and Sharon blaze through territory including a fuller picture of what “salvation” is, alternative views of hell, universalism, etc.

Both Ray and Steve wish to thank Sharon for taking so much time to share her thoughts with our audience. And we hope that you, our listeners, have enjoyed this new venture for Beyond the Box. If you have some suggestions of others that you’d like us to try to interview on this show, feel free to send them along or post them in the comments section here or on our Idea Submission page.

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