Beyond the Box

In this first-ever interview on Beyond the Box, Ray interviews Sharon Baker, author of the book “Razing Hell: Rethinking Everything You’ve Been Taught About God’s Wrath and Judgment“.  Dr. Baker’s views are very much in line with recent episodes that we have done on Beyond the Box, and yet she helps to drive the conversation even further.

In this first part (second part will be posted within a few days), Ray and Sharon go down several rabbit trails, taking time to camp out on various topics relating to forgiveness, justice, and possible cultural impacts on the way people in the Old Testament understood God.

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In this continuation (and conclusion) of the discussion began in the last episode, Ray and Steve continue to discuss the recent event at Elevation Church in Matthews, NC where a mom and her son with special needs were escorted from the service because of a vocal outburst by the boy.

The situation at Elevation is merely a jumping point, however, into discussion about institutional church in general and some of the many faults that Ray and Steve find with that system.  As former pastors, both Ray and Steve share personal experiences related to their life inside the institution and their feelings experienced now from outside that institution.

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Jesus said, “Whatever you have done to the least of these, you have done unto me.” And elsewhere he said, “Let the little children come unto me and do not prohibit them from doing so.” So when Ray and Steve heard about this newscast about events on Easter Sunday where an usher at Elevation Church in Matthews, NC removed a mother and her son with special needs (in photo to the left) from the service because the boy was a “distraction”, it touched a nerve.

More than just this story, however, the questions become more general and the rabbit trails happily lead Ray and Steve into yet another two-part episode (rapidly becoming the norm for this podcast!). Part 2 will be posted in a day or two, so check back soon!

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Continuing on in this conclusion to this 2-part episode, Ray and Steve respond to the promotional video for Francis Chan’s forthcoming book “Erasing Hell”.  Much more than just a response to Chan, however, this episode touches on lots of thoughts related to revelation and how much we can know and understand about the Father.

There may be more (and possibly even different) discussion once Chan’s book comes out and we can see exactly where he goes with his thoughts.  But it is important to note that Ray and Steve are not responding to what they think Chan will write about.  They are merely responding to the actual statements made in the video.

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Author Francis Chan is releasing a new book soon called “Erasing Hell” and has released a promotional video.  Unlike the Rob Bell video which raised a lot of questions, Chan makes some definitive statements (not necessarily about hell) in his video. And it is those statements to which Ray and Steve respond in this two-part episode.

Can we know the Father? Or is our finite, sin-infused mind incapable of knowing what God is like. When we say God is “just”, can we know what that means? Is the “justice” of God at all related to our human understanding of the concept of “justice”? Or is it in a completely different category altogether?

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[A quick note of apology for the sound quality on Steve's end. Lots of distortion this time around. Sorry, folks! ]

Whether it’s because you feel like your “testimony” isn’t good enough, or because you’re in a position of power that makes you feel like you have to be more than you really are, there is a strong temptation that almost all (if not all) of us face: to make ourselves sound like more than we really are.

In the workplace, it’s called “padding your résumé”.  In Christianity, it’s called being dishonest. Lying.  For one recent pastor, it showed up as a fictional account of being a Navy Seal.  For others, it’s a temptation to impress people with the place at which we did some academic study, even if our grades were terrible when we studied there!

Ray and Steve discuss this delicate issue, complete with quite a few of their own personal anecdotes of how this temptation has surfaced, and continues to surface, in their own lives.  Far from pointing fingers at others, Ray and Steve humbly look at their own lives and discuss the need to just be who we are and not to make ourselves out to be something else.

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In this conclusion of the discussion started last time in Part 1, Ray and Steve continue discussion the ramifications of the teachings of Jesus on our view of violence, national or otherwise.  As part of the discussion, Ray and Steve discuss some examples of where non-violence actually won out over violence. Do we dare to show love and kindness toward those who would seek to kill us?

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Sunday evening, May 1, President Barack Obama announced to the world that Osama bin Laden had been found and killed. And what resulted in terms of Facebook, Twitter, and other social media conversations was nothing short of amazing.  Responses varied from sheer joy at the thought of bin Laden now being in hell for all eternity to horror at the thought of rejoicing in anyone’s death.  Christians fought proof-text against proof-text and emotions flooded the conversations.

Just 24 hours after that announcement and the ensuing events online, Ray and Steve recorded this two-part conversation about their own feelings and responses. Is there a right and wrong response for the follower of Jesus in situations such as this? Is it ok to feel discomfort at the murder of even a symbol of evil such as bin Laden? How does this all relate to the recent episodes on Ultimate Reconciliation?

Join us for perhaps our most sobering and “mellow” episodes to date, as we approach this very emotional, very sensitive topic while our own responses are still raw.

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If you haven’t already listened to part 1 and part 2, you should go listen to those first for this episode to make the most sense.

Ray and Steve conclude this three-part discussion on Ultimate Reconciliation. It may seem to some like we have hammered this entire topic well into the ground, and perhaps we have.  However, for us, this topic has become more and more relevant and important in our understanding of the big picture of our Father’s love.  The strong insistence by many on the certainty of eternal conscious torment in hell for unbelievers raises a lot of questions about the big picture.  As we have said somewhere in this discussion, it is almost scary to see some people absolutely determined to make sure hell is populated, and not populated by just a few people.

At any rate, thanks for bearing with us in this lengthy conversation.  Your comments/feedback are always welcome, even if it’s to say, “Get on with something else already, guys!” ;)  (seriously!)

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(If you haven’t already listened to part 1, please start there!)

Continuing on with the discussion begun in part 1, Ray and Steve continue to discuss Ultimate Reconciliation. Theories about what happens after this life (especially with regard to the notion of post-mortem salvation opportunities) often go hand-in-hand with one’s view of the atonement, and so Ray and Steve begin this part of the discussion on that note.

Somewhere along the line in this three-part discussion, Ray and Steve discuss a passage in 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul says “As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive.”  As a tangent to this discussion, if you are interested in reading more of Steve’s thoughts on this particular verse, you can read “Does ‘All’ Mean ‘All’?” — a recent post on Steve’s mostly-dormant Theological Musings blog.

Stay tuned after this episode for Part 3 which purports to be a conclusion of sorts on this topic.  Or is this 3-part series just an introduction to another 5-part series to come?  (just kidding!)

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