Beyond the Box

In a continuation of the general topic dealt with in the recent 2-part series related to Rob Bell’s new book and the controversy surrounding it, Ray and Steve continue to discuss the idea of Ultimate Reconciliation.

This is not the first time Ray and Steve have dealt with this topic.  Back in February, 2009, they did an episode entitled “Hell and Ultimate Reconciliation“.  (It would definitely be interesting to compare what they said two years ago with their thoughts now on the topic!) But the topic has come up again, and this time Ray and Steve couldn’t easily be stopped.  This turned out to be a three-part discussion (stay tuned for Parts 2 and 3, coming soon).

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In this continuation of the discussion after a brief child-induced interruption, Ray and Steve jump right back into the discussion.  If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet, you need to go listen to it first.  It sets the framework for the heresy thoughts you’ll hear in this part!

We certainly enjoyed batting around different angles on this topic, and look forward to any responses you have to them.

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Lately, a controversy has been erupting in certain parts of the blogosphere, Facebook statuses (stati?), podcasts, etc. regarding the contents of a book that has yet to be released.  Despite the lack of actual content to judge, judgment of the anticipated content has been given out quite liberally by many.

While this two-part episode isn’t so much about Rob Bell or his book or his orthodoxy or lack thereof, the controversy did cause us to once again explore areas of Ultimate Reconciliation vs. Annihilation vs. Eternal Conscious Torment in a lake of fire.

Many view the lack of a belief in Eternal Conscious Torment to be a diminishing of who God is, a disregard for “the clear teaching of Scripture”, and flat-out heresy (apparently worthy of said lake of fire). But Ray and Steve talk about the many verses in scripture that talk about reconciliation, discuss what the word translated as “hell” really was in the words of Jesus and in the ears of his listeners, and talk about whether or not any of the three views of eternity mentioned above can be solidly held to without ignoring other passages.

Watch for part 2 to come out in a few days, but in the meantime, enjoy the first half of the discussion!

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It almost seemed like a joke when the news first came out that a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church gave his endorsement of an iPhone/iPad app that helps parishioners prepare for confession by stepping them through the 10 commandments and asking them questions to prompt their memory about sins they have committed.

But it was no joke.  Which got Ray and Steve thinking out loud about technology, its impact on issues of faith, its use within a faith practice, and ultimately a subject that is of prime importance with or without technology: relationships.

By the way, the blog post that Ray and Steve talk about at some point in this podcast is Multiplication Ministry and Maturity, written by Steve on his old Theological Musings blog (now largely silent and gathering dust) back in May of 2006, and linked here for your convenience if you care to read it.

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Listener Shane asked a handful of questions regarding the glory of God, total depravity of man, and humanism. Ray and Steve saw all three questions as related to a central topic, and so in this episode, they discuss all kinds of thoughts related to these questions.

Is man totally depraved? Did the Fall of man into sin completely remove any trace of the image of God within man? If man is not totally depraved, does that somehow limit the amount of glory that God receives through his creation?

“Unbuckle your seatbelts” and listen in as Ray and Steve discover things they hadn’t even thought of previously while exploring the many rabbit trails that this topic affords!

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Big C, one of our long-time listeners and friends of the podcast, submitted an idea for a show with a couple of questions relating to how we teach our children.  Because Ray and Steve both live life with their families outside of institutional religion, is it possible that their children are getting a very limited, and perhaps unbalanced, source of teaching?

After playing a portion of an audio clip clarifying Big C’s question, Ray and Steve discuss the way that they view raising children outside of an organized “religion”, yet while modeling a faith-filled life.

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Note: As we mentioned in the last post, this was originally one long episode that we edited into two episodes, so just as the last one ended without any type of “sign off”, this one starts without any type of “introduction”, picking up in the middle of the discussion.  With that in mind, if you haven’t already listened to Part 1, please go do so before listening to this one. It will make much more sense that way!

Continuing the discussion regarding literal interpretations of Genesis 1-11 and other beliefs held to be essential by some for salvation, Ray and Steve wrap up the discussion started last time.  References to the end of the year and holidays reflect the intent to originally air the entire episode before the end of 2010.  Don’t worry–it’s not meant to indicate that we’re done for 2011!

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Note: This is a part 1 of a lengthy episode that we split up into two episodes for listening convenience.  Therefore, the ending of this recording may feel a bit abrupt to you, but will be continued in part 2 which will post in a few days.

There are many Christians who believe that the opening of the book of Genesis (specifically the first 11 chapters) must be interpreted literally or else it is virtually impossible to believe anything else in scripture literally.  Some would even go so far, then, to say that it is essential to believe Genesis 1-11 literally in order to be saved.

Ray and Steve use this particular example of the opening to the book of Genesis to discuss the larger issue of what beliefs should or should not be considered as absolutely essential. If a belief really is essential, Ray and Steve argue that it should, or even must, be included in any “gospel presentation”.  Usually this is not the case.

Come along for the ride, and then look for part 2 to show up soon.

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True to form, Ray and Steve have trouble staying on any one topic, but instead wax very passionately about several different topics, at least related in their own minds!  Bouncing off comments made with regard to open theology a few episodes ago, this episode offers several thoughts that may cause mixed responses in the minds of some listeners.  However, through it all, Ray and Steve continue to assert that they do not have all the answers, and that they are open to other ideas different from their own.

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We were excited to discover yesterday that Beyond the Box is in the running for a Podcast Award in the Religion Inspiration category. (Huge thanks to Big C for promoting us in the nomination stage!)

Voting begins Dec 1 (today) and continues through Dec 15 at http://www.podcastawards.com. One vote per person per IP address (per day?), and you will have to confirm your vote via email.

We appreciate all of our listeners, award or no award, and if you choose to vote for us for this award, we thank you.  We’ll be coming back at ya real soon with a new episode, so stay tuned to your iTunes or feed reader!